TiesOli Forum

Hello everybody
I am totally lost with this because I have not learned.
I'm trying to learn from a book but it doesn't work because I have another patternmaking method.
And I do not understand how to do with the measurment chart.
if anyone has an easy way and would like to share.

Thanks for your help.

I'm on the edge of my seat on that one!
What Olivera suggests is this book:
https://www.muellerundsohn.com/en/shop/ ... omen-kids/


Müller und Sohn have developed some of the most popular pattern drafting systems and usually lead to a beautiful fit. I've been exposed to them thanks to Olivera over great many years and can say that the results are brilliant, but they tend to hide the source of their understanding, providing methods that work without you truly learning "why", so to say. However, the way they teach grading is most certainly reliable.

I'm thinking about ways to explore pattern construction and ways to teach them based on a true exploration of body-volumes, motion and fabric behavior. I'm hoping I can eventually come up with ways to share my findings so that even laymen can understand it and figure out their own solution on the fly. The last word has not yet been spoken about ways to draft such patterns ideally and inventively. Expect to join a pretty exciting journey with us!

A word about grading at this point:
• we've seen a number of grading "solutions" in other applications and they all end up being more or less the same- linear- and never "complete"
• A true grading system would have you enter formulas to adjust specific key anchor points around your pattern. Some of these formulas require you to find intersections of arcs with pivots in various places, leading to rotation based adjustments, which a linear grading approach cannot properly solve.
• Normally you start with your basic block, for which you must have two sizes. Any grading system would either extrapolate or interpolate from there.
• Your designed pattern based on the basic block in one size then has to be adjusted to match the basic block at its second size. Then you let the computer interpolate or extrapolate the missing sizes.
• Measurement tables and "leap values" for grading ... this will make your head spin for sure, but once you begin to find your orientation, things can actually feel almost easy at the end. Key to this is proper naming of "anchor points" (I'm calling them so, don't expect this to be an official term!), so you know which is which.

These are just some thoughts on the topic of grading and are meant to give you a bit of a rough orientation what you're up against. It may sound far more dramatic then it really is. At the end you should just consider that you need one piece of clothing to fit two differently sized bodies. Whatever magic any system proposes, that's what it's all about. There are standard sizes which people have come to expect and plenty of tables for them. We will actually provide one of them with the next update!

However, since there are many different grading systems and ways you may go about it, we may not include a table for leap values and their formulas. At least not now. If (or when) we come up with our very own system, you will get all of that, of course!

Wonderful question, though, Emmanuelle!

Now we're still all pins and needles regarding more replies from everyone!!!

Thank you so much for your help.
I understand better and I am currently thinking about a way to develop my own way of grading with my evolutions chart.
It is a difficult thing for me because I do this alone but nothing is impossible in life.
We can adapt any grading system with our size chart, but my problem is that I don't know how to do it.
Thank you Taron, thank you oli for your generosity and your help.

Well, first of all, you're most certainly NOT alone!
When you can construct a pattern in the size you want, you can construct it in the size you need, too, and for everything else there will come our grading solution to your rescue!
You are always more than welcome and we thank you for doing what you do!

Hello, hello
I am going to analyze sewing patterns to understand and I know that I will get there. I hope with this to understand the increments applied because I already understand the principle of grading.
On the other side, I don't understand when you say " construct it other size you need"
How to do?
Size basic bloc 38 and other????

Every grading system requires essentially 2 sizes in order generate all other sizes. Some may have only the resulting "leap values" for the points of the pattern, but that is the same thing as having 2 sizes.
That means, if you have your basic block at size 38, you need it at least one other size, which could be 40, for example. In this case you could then generate all other sizes by extrapolating. It will add the difference between 40 and 38 to 40 in order to generate 42.

Imagine the formula: 40 + (40-38) = 42

Then it will apply those differences to 42 to get 44 and again to 44 to get 46. It then can go the other way by inverting those differences and apply them to 38, generating 36, apply them to 36 to get 34 and so on.

Imagine the formula: 38 + (38-40) = 36

The problem or weakness of extrapolation is that any small "error" or tolerance in fit will be extrapolated, meaning it will kind of get worse. The far more pleasing results can be expected, if you can interpolate between greater size gaps such as having size 38 and 46. If you know that they both fit their body types well, this will more likely apply to all sizes the grading can generate between them. Greater consistency and greater nuance. You can also generate all smaller sizes from there, too.

As for constructing patterns in different sizes: If you have constructed your pattern, using your own measurements, you would only need the measurements of somebody in a different size, but rather the official standard measurements of the size you choose to use for construction. This way you would create a reference for how you would adjust your original size in the grading process.

Once we are ready to release, we will prepare a few examples and it will become pretty clear, I believe.

Additional thoughts:
Always remember that everybody is cooking with water! The question is only what seasoning they use, , or what it really is that they are cooking.

Any software that claims to have "automatic grading" has either a system that you need to adhere to, likely severely restricting your creative freedom, making it complicated to work with and prohibiting many adjustments, or they just hide from you the work you need to do yourself. The latter I would prefer, because in the former way, they are forcing you to rely on what they offer. Anything not good in their solution will be not good in your creation.

Our philosophy gives you virtually total freedom, no restriction in terms of design, but the drawback is that you need to know what you are doing. It will allow you to become an expert and realize your own unique qualities, making every White Rabbit CAD user clearly unique, if they desire to pursue their uniqueness in pattern construction choices, too. Everyone is unique by default, naturally.

Anyway, the challenge we took on is to permit that amount of freedom while still providing the most amount of power in our tools, most helpful and least restricting, all the while being as easy to use as possible. Few things will show this as clearly as the coming grading!

Every step into the unknown has the power to inspire fear, as long as you don't know yourself well enough in similar situations. Ultimately every new thing we approach is at least partially an unknown. But the more you learn, the more you learn about yourself, the less you will worry about things you haven't done, yet, because you will know that you can master anything as you already have.

Here's another book on grading we've been recommended:

https://www.bookfinder.com/book/9780632022953/

Hello Taron,

I can't wait to find out about it all. I love White rabbit.
I continue my research work and I progress with grading and I am happy. I'm going to get there.
I can do it!!!!!
I would like to speak better English to have conversations with you but I try to improve every day.


emmanuelle

Si seulement je pouvais déjà parler français. But I'm looking forward to our first conversation in English, too!